Divine Appointments: ‘Jesus has been locked out of churches’

Apostle Barbara Clarke from the Caribbean islands has lived in Botswana for two decades. She has been in charge of Throne of Grace and Holiness Ministries since 2001. She was in Harare recently as guest speaker at a “4 Days of Divine Alignment” conference hosted by Rev Daniel and Pastor Mrs Madusolumuo of Jesus Power Christian Ministries. Tendai Manzvanzvike (TM) spoke with Apostle Barbara (BC) on a variety of issues.

TM: You were introduced as an ambassador of Christ. Expand on that and who Apostle Barbara is.

BC: Basically, I like to consider myself as a vessel of God, being privileged that God can use me because there are many out there that He can use. We know of a situation when God used a donkey. So, it is a privilege that I am even saved.

It’s a privilege that I can give back to God in this way – to bring people to the knowledge of God – the truth of God, to make them understand who Christ really is, and that everything we need is truly locked up in Him.

So, I think that even when they used the term ambassador, it was to the effect that you go out there and you stand on behalf of the kingdom of God and on behalf of the Lord – to let people know that God is real because some people don’t know that God is real.

TM: How real is God?

BC: You see, God has always been taught as somebody so far away, someone you can’t reach, but He wanted us to know, from way back (more than 2 000 years ago), that He was closer than we think.

You can touch, feel, experience and hear Him. He is there. He says I am right there on your lips and in your heart and that’s why He sent Jesus that we can actually see Him in physical form. (1 John 1:1-3)

TM: What are believers expected to do?

BC: Look, He is the Alpha and the Omega. The problem is that we don’t know, so instead of waiting for God to show us the way, we make the way.

God wants us to be His dwelling place, to be fond of Him. He is always available. We just need to let ourselves be found and avail ourselves because Jeremiah 29:11 tells us that He has a plan for us; He has thoughts towards us – of peace, not of evil; to give us hope, to give us a future. But sadly, many of us still want our ways.

TM: Now the Divine Alignment conference. Tell us about that.

BC: Over the centuries, we have seen the church drifting from what it was in Acts – from the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came – losing its power and come totally out of alignment with the Lord.

So, God is saying, where my body is, I can’t put my head: it’s tattered, it’s broken, and it’s torn. I believe that if the body was ready, Jesus would have come.

When we look at Revelation 3, Jesus says I am standing outside the door and knocking. Consider that the owner of the house is locked outside, and has to knock. Jesus has been locked out of the churches. So, if Jesus is not there and it’s flesh, flesh will continue to manifest.

TM: That’s very heavy going . . .

BC: Many churches these days exclude the Holy Spirit; it’s His church. You find people can do two or three services, very quickly but not give any space for the Holy Spirit. And because we are so programme-oriented, it’s performance-based now in church.

But God is not about performance. He is about results; about fruit. So, you look today in the church, and you can see the fruit. People still don’t know God.

TM: With all those numbers going to church and you say that?

BC: People might get blessed. I kept highlighting that Moses did the wrong thing but he still got results.

God told Moses in Numbers 20:8 to go and speak to the rock. Instead he said to the Israelites: “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” He then hit the rock twice, and water came out. Moses went out but he had equated himself with God.

TM: And he paid heavily for that?

BC: His congregation rejoiced saying what a miracle! But the people didn’t know that God told him to speak to the rock. No one knew that Moses had disobeyed God. It is us now who know that this is what happened.

This is what is going on in the church – with people buying “anointing” oil.

I didn’t come to condemn any practice. I came here to reveal the truth in the word.

People now focus on the oil instead of God. They don’t understand that Jesus Christ is that anointing, that the Holy Spirit is that anointing. Look at Exodus 30:22-33 and Isaiah 10:27 to see what anointing oil is. You need to read that story in full in order to know that the Assyrians were the enemy of Israel.

Read also Matthew 11:28-30 where Jesus is doing the transfer. Remember, in Isaiah God was saying that the anointing oil will break the yoke, but Jesus is now saying He is that oil that breaks the yoke.

TM: But people are still getting the anointing oil – millions of bottles?

BC: In 1 John 2:25-27 it says do not allow anyone to deceive you. Anointing oil being sold cannot teach you. People have spread a deception saying it is a contact point for the Holy Spirit to come. But it is a way to make money.

They just go to supermarkets and get oil and put it in bottles, because olive oil is very expensive. You want to tell me that they are buying olive oil; no they are not. People are brainwashed because they don’t want to read the Bible.

In the process, they diminish and devalue the power of the Holy Spirit. It’s like bringing God to something that He has created – the olive tree.

TM: Does that mean they should not use anointing oil?

BC: The Bible allows that for consecration and for those that are sick. But you must make people understand why you are doing it when you use anointing oil.

TM: What has caused the drift?

BC: Flesh that didn’t die, that wants to be puffed up! Flesh that doesn’t want to suffer; flesh that wants to show people that “God is working with me because I have a 5 000-strong congregation and I own a private jet”.

Moses could reason with God, but could not finish well. He missed getting into the Promised Land. He started very well. Carried a congregation of 1,5 million people, carried them and what he did was to get to Mt Nebo and that’s where his destiny ended.

TM: Final remarks!

BC: People these days don’t read their Bibles. We might be in church, but we don’t read and because of that it becomes very, very difficult to comprehend what God is saying. And because of that, the church has somewhat got stuck in a place without understanding the current move of God.

Jesus also says as He is sitting on the right hand of the Father, there you are. It’s a positional place when we got born again. The body is still on the earth, but your spirit and body must come into alignment with Christ. It must look like Him.

Who will find you when Christ has become your dwelling place?

Galatians 4:9 says: “But now that you have known God – or rather are known by God – how is it then you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces?”

Why? After God has washed you, cleansed you and brought you into a place called destiny, brought you into a place where you are an inheritor, a place where you are now a joint heir with Christ, a place where you are now because you are in Christ and Christ is in God and can exhibit the fullness of the Godhead, you have become the dwelling place of God, how is it then that you can remove yourself from allowing God to live in you and go back to the weak and beggarly things of the world?

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