The Sunday Mail
Munyaradzi Huni
When the dispute between former Governor of the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe Dr Gideon Gono and his advisor Dr Munyaradzi Kereke erupted in 2012, many people were baffled by the open clash between two men who had seemingly worked well together since 2004.
Kereke accused Dr Gono of stealing US$37 million from the RBZ; and corrupting the Anti-Corruption Commission, judiciary and senior Government officials.
Kereke accused the authorities of failing to investigate and arrest his former boss, and dragged Dr Gono to the courts as the dispute became embarrassingly messy.
After being slapped with a 14-year prison sentence for raping a minor, Kereke — who is serving his time at Chikurubi Maximum Security Prison — last week spoke for the first time about his clash with Dr Gono.
When The Sunday Mail went for the interview, Kereke had prepared a statement apologising to Dr Gono, saying he should have handled things better. Our Deputy Editor, Munyaradzi Huni, sought further clarification on what really caused the fallout between the two.
In his white prison garb and cracking lots of jokes, Kereke was clearly a different man.
These are excerpts of their discussion. . .
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MH: Having gone through the statement, I have a number of questions for you Dr Kereke. The statement centres on problems you had with Dr Gono and how you have now found common ground. But I want to know, how was your relationship with Dr Gono when you were at the Reserve Bank?
Dr Kereke: I worked with Dr Gono from 2004 to January 2012, eight years in total. I would say largely, from the first six years, it was an excellent relationship. We worked as a team and we worked professionally. So I would say generally, very, very excellent relationship.
MH: So what went wrong?
Dr Kereke: I think he would be the best person to respond to that. You know when two parts of the same body are attached and you separate them abruptly, there is trauma. There is bleeding. The part that has been amputated will remain with questions, but I want to say all of that is in the past now. All of that is in the past.
MH: Your clash with Dr Gono started almost at the same time you went into politics. Did politics play any part in the deterioration of your relationship?
Dr Kereke: I wouldn’t know what precisely it was.
Just so you know, I went on leave, it was in December. January when I drove back to come back to work, the doors were closed. No discussion, nothing.
So a lot of the issues about what went wrong, I would not be the best person to answer. But I want to insist again, this is now in retrospect.
Whatever it was, I want to believe it’s finished now. We are now on the same page. We are now people who have found common ground.
MH: Are you implying that you have been communicating with Dr Gono?
Dr Kereke: We have been communicating through lawyers, wanting to clarify areas were we had differences. I want to say that process went on very smoothly and cordially because either side really wanted closure. To get to the bottom of things.
So yes we communicated through our legal counsel.
MH: Your families were very close. How did the clashes affect your families?
Dr Kereke: Ahh, it was not good at all. Not good at all. Imagine when we used to, during leave days, we used to travel together on holiday. Our kids would play together. They knew each other on first name basis.
So to the kids, to the family, it was not good at all because then they were asking questions that we couldn’t answer to say what is this on TV, what is this in the newspapers? Can we still go to the house; things like that.
So, I want to say it was not good at all.
MH: So when the kids were asking you all those questions, what would you tell them?
Dr Kereke: You would find smart ways of dismissing them, politely, because it was awkward. That’s the word. It was awkward.
MH: Do you regret what you did?
Dr Kereke: Very much so. In fact in my statement I said things could have been managed differently and better perhaps.
MH: Did anyone force you into saying what you are saying now? Are you doing this of your own volition?
Dr Kereke: Certainly and for the record, no one talked me into this. It is a matter of wanting to clear my own conscience. It is a voluntary process.
It is a process, I want to believe also Dr Gono, he has to move on with his life, so do I. We needed to clear the air.
Certainly no one talked me into this.
MH: I know before you came here you were already going to church, and in your statement I saw you quoted verses. Can you elaborate a bit what the verse is all about?
Dr Kereke: (Laughs) I think its Colossians 3:12 to 14. It talks about the virtues of forgiveness when parties have aggrieved each other. It talks about the need to redefine relationships with love being the common denominator.
More like if you had spears, turn them into ploughshares. If you had guns, maybe take the metal parts and use them as agricultural tools or something like that.
So it’s really a verse which I want to say will guide our relationship. That is my wish. Where there is full respect, we let by-gones be by-gones. We live as family once again.
MH: You had the opportunity to do what you are doing now when you were out there. Some people would think you have made this realisation now that you are here? Is it the correctional services of the country’s prison system that are assisting you to come to this realisation?
Dr Kereke: I think life is dynamic and perspectives change over time.
When we were out there, the conflict was at fever pitch. Literally every conflict the world over goes through circles and there are moments were people sober up and realise that, only sensible, civilised discussions are the right way to do things.
It is certainly not because I am shackled in the prison. I think it’s about the right time. It is more about the time.
How long can people go on differing, disputing on things which people can sit down, verify what needs to be verified, talk at the family level?
But I also want to say to another extent, when you are at a place like a prison, you have a lot of time to yourself, (you) reflect.
You also become closer to God.
You then want to say, what best approaches are there to conflict resolution?
So I wouldn’t say prison in the sense of oohh, I am in pain so I must do A, B, C. No. It is the reflection that I have been allowed to have. To self-introspect and then come to the conclusion that I must not waste time and resources engaging in disputes with people.
If we can find common ground, through dialogue, it is the right thing to do.
And here we are. I want to believe that things will work out as expected.
MH: Why have you chosen the public media? Why The Sunday Mail, specifically to say all you are saying?
Dr Kereke: I think it’s about credibility.
The tragedy with our media these days is that they can turn something which is virtuous into something awfully terrible depending on which side of the political equation that journalist is.
I know certainly that The Sunday Mail has credibility, believability to the public.
It’s also about circulation because we want people to know that the yesteryear conflict is no more. We have reconciled. We are one family.
If Dr Gono were to bring me on a public holiday — we have the forthcoming Easter Holiday — cooked beef in a lunchbox, I will eat it without doubting or suspecting that there could be something in there.
He can bring me a cup of coffee. He knows my sugar levels in the tea. I drink it without asking.
So it is at that level that we have come to reconcile.
MH: Those allegations you were making painted Dr Gono as someone who was corrupt. Is Dr Gono a corrupt person?
Dr Kereke: He is not. This has come about, you know when you block dialogue.
No pressure moves anything unless it’s contained. If you boil water, close it in a can, it blows up the thing.
I think we didn’t share information as much as we have now done. We didn’t explain things because there was that sudden amputation.
So the question was these things that I have could they be the ones, the reasons I have been shunted out or what is it?
But through dialogue you then see that you join the two pieces together they make a logical story which is quite plausible.
For instance, we had transactions were a junior officer signs a gold trade contract were you sell gold at a discount of 34 percent.
This was at the divisional level but the moment that transaction is implemented it becomes a bank transaction. Through dialogue, facts then emerge. Ahh, Dr Gono was of the same views that I had, that ooohh, no this transaction was not normal.
He did the right thing, he cancelled it. He cancelled it so he and I are in agreement. Only that information had not been shared, you see.
So he was able to say ahh, ok, this transaction where gold was being sold at 34 percent discount, yes, there was one shipment but the moment he realised that, he did the right thing — he cancelled it. Which means we are on the same side.
MH: When you clashed with Dr Gono, some people speculated that maybe there was a deal that went sour between the two of you. What is your comment?
Dr Kereke: It was more about professional relationships. We dealt extensively person to person, family to family.
I want to say the disputes which might have arisen were resolved at that level. We resolved them at that level.
So I want to say when people are inter-fused together, at the personal level and at the family level, it is not out of the ordinary that they can have conflicts arise.
It’s humanity. It’s human nature. Husband and wife quarrel, brothers quarrel.
It is then how you react and resolve those differences.
At this stage, it’s January the 26th of 2017, I want to say I have absolutely no dispute with Dr Gono at any level.
MH: Some even said maybe it was a clash over some girlfriend or something of that sort?
Dr Kereke: Ahhh, well (laughing), it wouldn’t cause people to argue to that extent. Why would you fight over a girlfriend?
MH: You spoke about the coming Easter Holiday saying if Dr Gono brings you food you will eat it. Are you looking forward to Dr Gono visiting you?
Dr Kereke: Well, I think I will certainly invite him because all the disputes are coming to an end.
We must live what we say — brothers as brothers.
Dr Gono has a son called Junior. I think his youngest son. He was younger than my son Tinashe but they were very close. We would travel. Locally we would go to Nyanga, there at his house. Our kids were always playing together.
We had driven each other to the cliff where everything was embarrassing. We were losing face even with our wives and our children. So sense had to come in. We realised this is not good.
And for the country, Dr Gono was Governor of the Central Bank, appointed by the country’s leadership.
On my part I think I needed to have acted differently regardless of whatever he would have done. Whatever he would have done I should have acted differently.
I think in a way I wasn’t sensitive. Without any shame I tender my apologies to the country and to Dr Gono.
MH: Was someone pushing you to go all out against Dr Gono?
Dr Kereke: No. No. Definitely not.
MH: Dr Gono was appointed by the President of Zimbabwe and this clash with him caused quite some damage to the country. What would you want to say to the country’s leadership?
Dr Kereke: It would be to say Dr Gono and I, we were beyond workmates. We were like brothers. I think that’s perhaps the reason why the dispute had to go to such extremes.
When you go to brothers that are very close, more like your own arm, you wake up one night, zaaappp, it’s taken off. There will be trauma. Any small glitch tends to snowball into a bigger dispute.
Having said all this, I tendered my apologies to Dr Gono and his family to say “ahhh, mukoma, let’s be sensible. Regardless of whatever you had done, muri mukoma, muri mukuru kwandiri. You are my brother. I am sorry for the way I acted”. He accepted the apology.
Likewise, he said, “Munin’ina, whatever went wrong at any stage in our relationship, know that I have forgiven you and we want to live normally.”
That’s at our level.
But to the country, with a very clear conscience, I want to profusely apologise to the country’s leadership and the nation at large; to say this brawl with Dr Gono risked tarnishing the image of the country.
It was not good at all. We could have acted better and in a different way.
I have an example — His Excellency always says mukanetsana even at the party level, regardless kuti umwe atora dhongi remunhu or mbudzi, try to resolve the issue quietly muri kumacorner.
I think in a way, Dr Gono and I, hatina kuterera that advice. Fortunately we have come to realise that it was the right advice.
MH: Since you started serving your sentence here, has Dr Gono visited you or made attempts to visit?
Dr Kereke: Not as yet. He hasn’t as yet come but certainly we will use our internal formal communications to invite him to come so that we practice what we say.
This place where I am, you get uplifted when your loved ones visit you. They come to raise your spirits.
MH: Are you describing Dr Gono as one of your loved ones?
Dr Kereke: At the family level, definitely. Biblical love, not that other ngochani love (laughs).
MH: Did Dr Gono ever mention to you how much your dispute affected his businesses?
Dr Kereke: He wouldn’t need to tell me. I could tell you how much it affected my businesses. It’s a mirror image. Utter destruction.
It affects relationships. How banks view you. There is what is called association risk. You have got a loan here and there and they start calling it even before it matures.
I never had an opportunity to discuss with him but I would mirror what happened on his side by what happened to me.
It was not good at all.
MH: What would you want to say to his business partners or whoever wants to get into business with Dr Gono?
Dr Kereke: I have clearly started in my statement to say, don’t look at the brother to brother dispute that had come up as a reflection of his integrity, as a reflection of his ability to deliver.
Please see that this was a dispute. People were firing sling shots.
If you Google the speeches he would give, sometimes the jabs he would give, offensive language that also came from me to him; it affects relationships.
So to the business community, honestly and with all sincerity, take it from the fact that the two parties have now reconciled. They did all they did in the midst of a conflict which was mishandled by both parties. We are pleased that it is over.
MH: Some people will say you are now taking this position because when you were out there, you used to drive good cars and live in nice houses; your stay here has sobered you. Is that so?
Dr Kereke: Well, when I grew up, I never had shoes in Bikita there. My first pair of shoes was when I walked to Silveira Mission to go to school.
I literally worked my way up to those big cars. Being here does not in any way obliterate one’s capacity.
You can actually see His Excellency was here. Just because he was motivating people to fight colonialism, but where is he now? He is the icon of the continent. The best President we can ever dream to have.
So passing through jail does not have a negative correlation with the capacity to unbundle your individual worth.
So far from it.
In fact, here we were pleased that they have what they call the rehabilitation unit which teaches inmates to work and use their own hands when they come out.
So being here is not anything that can relate to disabling one from later driving big cars or living in a large house.
MH: You are actually looking forward to getting out and driving those big cars and living in those big houses?
Dr Kereke: I am in those houses. My family is. They are in those cars. If they are there, I am there.
The bottom line is to say, let’s not look at the prison as a place where people are shackled and condemned into extinction. We have good examples in our own country — His Excellency and his deputy Honorable Vice-President Mnangagwa.
He was also here for 10 years. His Excellency for longer, but they are shining examples of how you can reincarnate after that episode.
The sky becomes the limit.
MH: If Dr Gono were to walk into this room right now, what would you want to say to him?
Dr Kereke: From my heart I would want to say to him, it’s good to rediscover each other mukoma. It’s good to rediscover each other mukoma.
Rediscovering in the sense that we had gone so far, lost in our own appetite to fight and fight and fight and fight. But both of you are on a cliff. You can almost imagine what would happen. You are on a cliff and you are busy brawling. You may roll over and the results would be casualties beyond yourselves.
It affects family, it affects the image of the country. It affects a lot of things. So I withdrew all my court cases from the courts and elected that path were parties should really talk as a way to get an end to this.
And also factually, Dr Gono was able to give credible, plausible explanations on a lot of the grey areas that had caused us problems.
MH: Listening to you now and what was happening during those clashes, one would want to know, are you a changed person now?
Dr Kereke: Very much so. The last thing that I would ever do, when I am offended, is to go to the courts. I will try to exhaust all possible avenues for dispute resolution to the last level.
Even if it means dragging each other to our church elders or even to our uncles, to our aunties. I think it achieves results more effectively than going out there.
So changed, definitely, yes. I have cast away that desire to have the fighting spirit.
You know the disciple Paul was very apt when he said “if you decide to discover God, then be prepared to bury your bad traits in your conduct”.
Vengefulness, anger — nail them on the cross and rise with Jesus and try and live peacefully with everybody to the best you can.
So, changed person, definitely, yes.
MH: Do you think you played into the hands of the media because the stories about your dispute were all over?
Dr Kereke: At that stage, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I was of the view that it was fair comment. I was of that conviction.
But through introspection — that’s why annually or every five years even at the country level, you get to review your policies. You get to change economic strategies, you get to change strategies.
Not to say the old ones when you were crafting them, you were crazy. But you will be informed by new information, new experiences and the desire to achieve new objectives.
MH: You said your families were very close and that your wife at one point even gave you advice that what you were doing was wrong. What would you want to say to your families?
Dr Kereke: It would really be to say we are so sorry. We acted irresponsibly as parents, fighting in public, in front of your eyes, in front of your ears. Know that this dispute is over and let’s live together again as family.
MH: Some people say you acted the way you acted because you were young and rich. What is your comment?
Dr Kereke: Certainly Dr Gono was not young. He was in fact my elder brother but we were together in the dispute.
So, I want to detach the age index from what happened. You can have 50, 60-year-olds behaving the same way. It is really an issue of choosing the wrong way to manage a situation. We tangled for quite an extent of time.
Age would not come in.
MH: As you were tangling, who was throwing more fist fights?
Dr Kereke: I want to say it was mutual. But our own culture and even Biblically, I can’t remember what verse it is which says do not speak angrily to someone older than you.
I think I went off the rails. He could have come, poured hot water on my face. He could have come and insulted me in any way, I ought not to have reacted the way I did.
It was wrong and very, very bad. And I am sorry for that.
MH: You don’t think it was immaturity?
Dr Kereke: I wouldn’t want to say at that level I was immature. I was a man. It was choosing the wrong approach, the wrong path. Across all age groups, we can err and take the wrong turn. You can take the wrong turn across all age groups.
And you have brilliant youngsters too who are much younger but who make decisions that are excellent. So, I wouldn’t want to look at it as an issue of age. I just didn’t think through how to react to the situations.
MH: I see you are holding this big Bible?
Dr Kereke: When I was called, I was busy reading. Yes, yes.
MH: What would you say you have learnt from the way you handled your dispute with Dr Gono and what advice would you want to give to those who may find themselves in a similar situation?
Dr Kereke: First, my advice to bosses is if a junior has done something which you feel is not in congruency with what you would want, communicate effectively.
You don’t lock the door and assume you have communicated.
So, our separation with Dr Gono created the false impression that we had a lot of bad issues against each other.
I couldn’t understand why all of a sudden I was shut out. So it’s communication.
Secondly, resolve your disputes as much as possible through dialogue. It is the right way. The results there are much, much more effective.
Look, we could have dragged through the courts but the moment we took the dialogue way, information started to flow, exchanging of files which clarified a lot of issues.
And we were saying, what was the problem all these years, fighting when all these grey areas could have been cleared in a matter of few weeks through proper dialogue?
So my advice would be don’t choose the aggressive path of fighting. If anything, embrace each other in the context of your difficulties, put communication and sensibility ahead of everything else.
MH: Am still wondering, didn’t someone tell you what you were doing was wrong? Didn’t someone tell you to stop the open fight?
Dr Kereke: Well, eehhh, my wife told me so once. But we were so consumed, down the wrong path.
When you are consumed, down the wrong path, you will only realise much later that I should have listened to that advice.
MH: Now that you have poured your heart out on this issue, how do you feel?
Dr Kereke: I feel very happy that we have been able to clear the issues that were dangling, distorting our lives.
Now I feel very relieved that at least I have apologised for my contribution in the mutual dispute. He has responded positively and agreed with me that this path of reconciliation is the right path.
But I want to emphasise that the issues of allegations of criminality, corruption and so forth, they have been logically explained by the quick amputation of what happened. I was literally in his office. With files that are in my possession. You are locked out. You can’t come in. In fact, I was referred to a lawyer.
For ethical reasons I can’t say the name.
Then I had to reverse my car, drive down the road to seek explanation from the lawyer who was not in the office. He had to text me to say, yes, I confirm he says let’s negotiate your exit.
That was how it was done.
One would then say, could it be this A, B, C or D? What is the reason why I am being blocked?
But the moment communication was opened, he was able to say ahh, munin’ina, you know what, these funds whereas from the information which you had, the file which you had, this went to Air Zimbabwe, this went to ZEC and so on.
We reconciled and I said ahh, mukoma, this is correct. So there is no issue.
We were able to tick line by line all these things and cleared all the grey areas.
I came to the conclusion that perhaps on the part of my brother, he ought to have communicated better so that there is proper synchronisation of information.
MH: Dr Kereke, thank you so much for your time. Is there anything you would want to say that you think we left out?
Dr Kereke: Not really. I think it has been extensive enough. The media should not get excited about episodes of conflict and scandals.
The media should situate themselves in areas where society must play its part.
The media must steer society towards priority social sectors — widows, orphans, prisoners, from a welfare point of view.
Imagine the impact, The Sunday Mail coming with churches, identifying the needs, talking to officers, going to head office? You then use your networks to synchronise the churches, big companies, plucking the holes so to speak.
Let me state it again boldly, handina kufoswa. It’s the desire to want to do the right thing.
